E350 Ball Joint - Wheel spindle removal problems

[JMKeene]

I'm replacing the upper and lower ball joints on my E350 and all of the instructions I've found regarding how to accomplish this make it sound like removing the wheel spindle from the car just requires a couple of love taps.

Obviously I've got the brake caliper removed, the rotor is off, the pinch bolt adjuster is removed from the upper ball joint, the cotter pin & nut are off the lower ball joint, but no amount of directed hammering on the wheel spindle or the lower ball joint is breaking it free, allowing the spindle to be removed from the vehicle. I've got penetrating oil on everything, but there is just no give on the lower ball joint where the threads pass through the vehicle. Could I possibly be doing something wrong? I can't get the ball joints off until I can get the spindle removed.

BTW, I've got the C-clamp tool & receiver cups for removing the ball joints once the wheel spindle is removed and placed in a vice, but it won't fit in any way to assist in ball joint removal while the wheel spindle is on the vehicle.



Thanks in advance.

Joe

PS I've attached a photo, if it comes through....

[jonmark1985]

Sometimes I can get it if I use a pry bar to spread the upper "clamp" around the ball joint slightly apart. Also try using a "pickle-fork" and a 1 0r 2 lb. hammer to drive the top of the spindle away.

[JMKeene]

Hi jonmark,

Per the photo that was attached, it's the lower ball joint that's stuck in position, not the upper. The lower ball joint shaft is tapered, so I'd think it would just drop out of the arm with enough force put on it, but I actually bent a ball joint tool trying to force the threaded shaft downward.

They warn against using a pickle-fork and/or heat to get the ball joint out, and my pickle fork isn't large enough to go around the lower ball joint shaft anyway. I'm considering using a sawzall on the ball joint to get it off, if I can get through hardened metal, and then deal with the shaft with a little more room to spare. I've sprayed it multiple times with penetrating oil, and I'm gonna let that sit overnight and see what happens. I've got a TurboTorch, too, and I'm thinking of heating up the ball joint at the threaded end and again trying force or adding more penetrating oil, once the shaft is heated. I'm aware that heating the whole wheel spindle could ruin it, so I'm gonna have to be careful of that, but what are my other options? I've put enough force on this little ball joint to bend tools, and it's not even budging. I'm not even sure the Sawzall could get through the ball joint shaft, but at this point, I'm getting nervous since the van is gonna be waylayed up on jackstands until I get this thing done.

I've attached a couple more pics, this time of the new lower ball joint, You can see the tapered shaft - that's where the old one appears to be frozen in position. The bottom of the ball joint is still in the wheel spindle, and the top part of the shaft is (apparently) frozen in the suspension arm. What to do???

Anyone???

Thanks in advance,

Joe

[jonmark1985]

Sorry, I didn't look at the upper picture well enough, and I didn't read your post enough.

Saw-zall should cut it, it'll cut some pretty hard stuff. Have you tried using hammering directly on bolt for the lower ball joint. I assume you are.

A fork would really be tempting!

[fireball0012]

Who warns against using a pickle-fork to get out a balljoint? That is the only way to get the balljoint out. Try a larger fork, sound like you are using one for tierod ends. Also don't try to cut it out, bad idea could cause lots more problems. And you have to hit the fork hard for it to break loose.

[JMKeene]

Here's the instructions from ALLEXPERTS:

Ford: Ball Joint Replacement

Removal

Remove the brake disc. Remove the wheel speed sensor. For additional information, refer to Section 206-09.
Remove and discard the cotter pin and nut.

Disconnect the tie-rod end.

Remove and discard the cotter pin and the nut.

Remove the pinch bolt adjuster.

CAUTION: To prevent damage to the ball joint seal and the ball joint socket, do not use a pickle fork-type remover to loosen the ball joints.

Remove the front wheel spindle.

Strike the lower end of the front axle to loosen the ball joint.

Remove the front wheel spindle.

To install, reverse the removal procedure.
Check and, if necessary, align the front end.
Remove the wheel spindle assembly. For additional information, refer to Wheel Spindle — E150-E450 in this section.
Position the front wheel spindle in a vise, and remove the snap ring from the lower ball joint.

CAUTION: To avoid damage to the components, do not use heat to aid ball joint removal.

Using the special tool and suitable receiver cup, remove the lower ball joint from the front wheel spindle.

Using the special tool and suitable receiver cup, remove the upper ball joint.

Installation

CAUTION: To avoid damage to components, do not use heat to aid installation.

NOTE: Clean the wheel knuckle ball joint bores.

NOTE: The lower ball joint must be installed first.

Using the special tool with suitable receiver cups, install the lower ball joint.

Using the special tool with suitable receiver cups, install the upper ball joint.

Install the snap ring in the groove at the bottom of the ball joint.

Install the front wheel spindle.
_______________________________________

From the ARRC (Auto Repair Reference Center) of the local library:

Ball Joint
Removal & Installation
To Remove:
Remove the steering knuckle assembly and secure it in a vise.

Remove the snap ring from the lower ball joint.

CAUTION
Do not use heat to aid ball joint removal.

Using the special tool and suitable receiver cup, press the lower ball joint from the knuckle.

Using the special tool and suitable receiver cup, press the upper ball joint from the knuckle.
____________________________________

In both cases cited here, they make it sound like it's a breeze to "remove the steering knuckle" or "wheel spindle".... but, don't use the two methods that might actually work (the pickle fork or heat...)

Again, I understand that too much heat is gonna mess things up with respect to the metal's tensile strength, so I'm not gonna heat the whole steering arm up, just apply heat to the top of the ball joint threads, hoping it works its' way down into the joint to loosen things...

The pickle fork I have is for ball joints, not for tie rod ends, but as you can see from the picture, the fork is not wide enough to go around the ball joint at the base of the tapered shaft.

So, it's a brand new day, and I'm gonna go hit it (literarlly!) and hope/pray that this thing drops right outta the arm (with a little force...).

If not, then I'm screwed and have to resort to further violence. Why is it that the simple part of a job always turns into the unpredicted nightmare like this??? You'd think that a big enough bolt/cotter pin would have kept this ball joint in place without it having to fit this tight.

Thanks for the responses, guys... It helps to know that I'm not just missing something that's right in front of my eyes. I was a fighter jet (F-4 Phantom II's) mechanic in the '70's, so it's not like I'm a newbie with mechanical stuff. I've pulled and installed some pretty major stuff over the years. Sometimes the little stuff just stops a man cold in his tracks, tho. (A .22 bullet to the brain will stop a 600 lb man cold in his tracks, too, right???)

Still open to suggestions, but I'm rethinking the idea of doing the passenger side, unless (after I jack it up) I see that there's play on that side, too.

Thanks again in advance,

Joe

[phantom_smack]

I have a wider pickle fork theat goes in a air hammer and it really has to work some times to get them loose.The warning would be if you were reusing the ball joint right?Since you are replacing them would it really mater?

[JMKeene]

Thanks Phantom - I guess I figured that as well (don't use the tool if you intend to reuse the joint), but they do also mention your not wanting to damage the socket...

And, yes, my wife was just about to get on the phone with Autozone and see if they had a manly sized pickle fork extractor... She was backing her car out of the way while I started bashing and she heard the thunk!

So, let me answer my own original question.... with a question...

Is you sledge hammer big enough???

Apparently not! I've been using a 5 lb. sledge on the whole affair and was getting nowhere.

I just got out my 10 lb. sledge and started bashing the steering knuckle with extreme force and violence, and it dropped to the ground.

All's well that ends well...

Thanks for your assistance guys, and remember "do not use heat or pickle fork extractors" to get your ball joint out of your E350 van.

Instead, use a BIGGER HAMMER!


Thanks again guys for your efforts. Hope someone else gets to this thread when they find themselves faced with this same thing.

Joe

[jonmark1985]

Originally Posted by JMKeene

CAUTION: To prevent damage to the ball joint seal and the ball joint socket, do not use a pickle fork-type remover to loosen the ball joints.

I think they are trying to say, if you use a pickle pork to take out the ball joint it can damage the rubber boot, or the socket the ball joint goes in. If you're installing a new ball joint then you shouldn't worry much about that. When you're reinstalling the old joint problems can arise.

I'm not sure about your fork being to small though, I'd bet you can get it started in there, and with a whack of the hammer it will still separate the spindle.

[JMKeene]

I agree jonmark - nowhere do they say that, though, and the instructions are for removal and replacement. They do mention not wanting to damage the socket, tho...

And, no, the pickle fork (see from the picture above) is not big enough to go around the bottom of the tapered shaft without damaging the pickle fork. They must have a wider version for situations like this.

At any rate, I did get the drivers side done today, and it turns out the passenger side also needs to be done. I pulled it all apart and took the 10 lb. sledge to it, and it too gave up the fight. I'm running it in to the machine shop for the ball joint actual install - no sense going through all the effort of trying to press these things out & the new ones back in risking damaging the new ones. I already had the drivers side done today and it was worth the $15@, believe me.

So, as I said, all's well that ends well.

Thanks again!

Joe