on cam kits

[jonmark1985]

Originally Posted by 302

I dont want to go with to serious of a cam. It is my daily driver, but I would like to go a bit more than stock. Wich I would like to figure out the stock cam specs. Is there a way to figure that out? I am not sure about the mass air flow. It is EFI, it has the seperate fuel injecters, and the plentum and throttle boddy for the air intake. But I do think there might be a sensor in the throttle body because there is an eletrical plug.

crown vice got speed density.

[302]

So sense it has speed density I have to change the chips in it. Meaning I need to change the computer chip in it, like a performance chip, or something else? A where would I find one?And thanks for all of the help. I've got a lot to think about.HaHa

[doug 351]

Originally Posted by 302

I was looking at some cam kits for my car. I was woundering when you change a cam, do you need to change the lifters too? And if so, how do you change your lifters. And if I change the cam do I need to change anything else, like fuel injectors, or valve springs ect...?Thanks.

Whether you need to change other components depends on the cam you use, as already stated. To change out your lifters, you will have to pull your valve covers and your intake, unbolt the rocker arms, pull the pushrods and then : if rollers, unbolt the spider and lift out the lifters or: if flat tappet, use a telescoping antenna looking retrieving magnet to reach down in the bores to get the ones down in there, or spin the motor until the come up enough to get a hold of them.

[jonmark1985]

I agree with contacting Comp on a cam. However, give Ford Racing a call as well.

The real rule said and done... any time you change a camshaft, even a used one. you should put new lifters in. Lifters can be refurbished and used over. This involves pulling the lifter apart, cleaning, putting it back together, and then testing the leak down on the lifter. EVERYTHING must be meticulously clean. I have an old car repair book from the sixties that goes into great depth. Flat tappet lifters wear to the camshaft, and must be kept in the exact order to prevent wiping a lobe. Many people swap cams in the 5.0 HOs and keep the roller lifters, that just seems like asking for trouble, especially if you don't even clean the lifters up.

I always dreamed of building an ultra budget 302. Domed hyper pistons in factory bore dingle honed cylinders, factory roller lifters, big cam, and a set of GT40 heads that have been given a race port treatment, maybe a factory aluminum dual plane intake as well. A motor like this could be built for 1000+ plus the orginal cost of the engine, and probably wouldn't survive forever. It could probably make 350 horse, and maybe 450 with nitrous, however it would be a short matter of time at that point before its demise. A junkard monster like that would get used lifters.

Now a quality engine, would get brand new lifters from Ford racing, Roads, Comp, or speed-pro. I'd probably opt for Ford Racing.

I think if you are going to the work of changing the camshaft you need to just pull the engine and be done.

If you pull the engine you can pull the heads and do some work to them. Remove the thermactor bump and you'll gain power for minimal cost. A little bowl blending and you'll be in business.

Regardless I think you should pull a spring or two off the heads. Put the spring in a vise and measure several things. Start with your installed height. This is the height of the spring on the head. Jegs sells a nifty tool for doing this. Then get a scale that you use in the vise to measure spring pressure. You'll want to measure when the spring is compressed to the installed spring height. 110-125 Lbs is usually called for with a roller camshaft. Your camshaft manufacturer can give a good spec for you and this varies with the types of valves you have, heavier valves need more pressure. Then check where your coil bind height is. This is the absoloute largest mechanically you can run a spring, you won't run a camshaft here, rather you'll run .090 from it. You'll want to check spring pressure here as well. Old springs won't have adequate pressure for most camshafts. Next you'll want to check the amount of room between the valve seal and the retainer. Theoretically if you wanted to really build an engine right you'd do every valve spring like this.

The factory HO camshaft was .440/.440 210/210, you don't have this camshaft, but you can get these springs for next to nothing.

Trick flow has a cheap set of Ford springs that are good to .540 lift, and have a 1.800 installed height.

Ford used a 1.72 and a 1.8 installed spring height on many models.

[doug 351]

Originally Posted by jonmark1985

I agree with contacting Comp on a cam. However, give Ford Racing a call as well.

The real rule said and done... any time you change a camshaft, even a used one. you should put new lifters in. Lifters can be refurbished and used over. This involves pulling the lifter apart, cleaning, putting it back together, and then testing the leak down on the lifter. EVERYTHING must be meticulously clean. I have an old car repair book from the sixties that goes into great depth. Flat tappet lifters wear to the camshaft, and must be kept in the exact order to prevent wiping a lobe. Many people swap cams in the 5.0 HOs and keep the roller lifters, that just seems like asking for trouble, especially if you don't even clean the lifters up.

I always dreamed of building an ultra budget 302. Domed hyper pistons in factory bore dingle honed cylinders, factory roller lifters, big cam, and a set of GT40 heads that have been given a race port treatment, maybe a factory aluminum dual plane intake as well. A motor like this could be built for 1000+ plus the orginal cost of the engine, and probably wouldn't survive forever. It could probably make 350 horse, and maybe 450 with nitrous, however it would be a short matter of time at that point before its demise. A junkard monster like that would get used lifters.

Now a quality engine, would get brand new lifters from Ford racing, Roads, Comp, or speed-pro. I'd probably opt for Ford Racing.

I think if you are going to the work of changing the camshaft you need to just pull the engine and be done.

If you pull the engine you can pull the heads and do some work to them. Remove the thermactor bump and you'll gain power for minimal cost. A little bowl blending and you'll be in business.

Regardless I think you should pull a spring or two off the heads. Put the spring in a vise and measure several things. Start with your installed height. This is the height of the spring on the head. Jegs sells a nifty tool for doing this. Then get a scale that you use in the vise to measure spring pressure. You'll want to measure when the spring is compressed to the installed spring height. 110-125 Lbs is usually called for with a roller camshaft. Your camshaft manufacturer can give a good spec for you and this varies with the types of valves you have, heavier valves need more pressure. Then check where your coil bind height is. This is the absoloute largest mechanically you can run a spring, you won't run a camshaft here, rather you'll run .090 from it. You'll want to check spring pressure here as well. Old springs won't have adequate pressure for most camshafts. Next you'll want to check the amount of room between the valve seal and the retainer. Theoretically if you wanted to really build an engine right you'd do every valve spring like this.

The factory HO camshaft was .440/.440 210/210, you don't have this camshaft, but you can get these springs for next to nothing.

Trick flow has a cheap set of Ford springs that are good to .540 lift, and have a 1.800 installed height.

Ford used a 1.72 and a 1.8 installed spring height on many models.

I'd sooner try and reuse a head gasket than flat tappet lifters. There's always some clown on Ebay selling a flat tappet cam with used lifters. No problem- they've all been labeled on which bore they cam from to keep them in order. Well the only reason to keep them in order is to match them to the lobe they were with previously.
As mentioned, flat tappet lifters "wear" to the lobes of the cam. Let's look at this a little more closely- I wouldn't worry too much about re-using roller lifters as long as they are in good shape. It's not hard to see that they ride right down the middle of the lobe on a roller. Flat tappets are off-set, so that the lifter rides on the lobe off-center. This spins the lifter turning it into a bearing of sorts. If it didn't spin, it would become a great big rubbing block wearing down the lobe in short order. This is why the proper break in is so critical as is keeping the broken in lifters in the same place.
Back to the clown on Ebay- what makes him think that putting used lifters and a used cam in a different motor is going to do any more good than just putting them in any order. Factory engines are not precise enough to place the offset in exactly the same place even if the lifters are put in the same order. The ONLY way you can get by with used flat tappet lifters is to put them back in the same order with the same cam in the same engine. You can run a used flat tappet cam with new lifters, but not the other way around.
So a roller lifter can be re-used very easily, but short of re-grinding the convex in the bottom of a flat tappet, they are a single use part. BTW- Check out my latest listing on Ebay- I have a used crankshaft and bearings with all the bearings marked in the order they were removed.... makes about as much sense.
Everything else here is great advice, (not saying the flat tappet wasn't, it just wasn't that clear). I am using Rhoads lifters in the engine I'm building now. The Rhoads are variable duration lifters, meaning they leak down at lower rpms. What this means is at idle and low rpm, the cam will have less lift and duration and behave like a much milder cam. When the rpms come up, the cam converts to full potential.

[mark v]

Usually when questions are asked like this I say have a professional do your work for you and take it in and have the work done since there are so many cam profiles and the wrong one can do piston and valve damage.

I know if I ever swapped one I would have somebody that knows what they are doing help me, probably why I never attempted this intense job.

Originally Posted by 302

I was looking at some cam kits for my car. I was woundering when you change a cam, do you need to change the lifters too? And if so, how do you change your lifters. And if I change the cam do I need to change anything else, like fuel injectors, or valve springs ect...?Thanks.

[jonmark1985]

You would have to tune the ecu, the twEECer is a popular option. Or convert to mass air flow. Or put a carb on on it.

You maybe be able to get by with speed density if you use a very streetable camshaft, ported heads, and dual exhaust.

[302]

How would I tune the ecu. Amd I already have true dual exhaust on it.

[jonmark1985]

The TwEECer -- EEC-IV user programmable module

[302]

I appretiat the help, but that proggramer wont work for my car. How would I change it to mass air flow?Thanks