2002 intermittent start problem

[steveo122]

hello
last year my wife's 2002 taurus, running fine in all other aspects, started acting like the battery was going bad.
turn the key and the starter would barely crank. try again and I would hear the dreaded click click click.
try again and it would fire up like nothing was wrong.
I swapped out the battery anyway and no problem until a couple of weeks ago.
now, the same thing, but this time I don't feel the pattern fits with a bad battery and i don't think I was right the last time. I was thinking the alternator might be failing but after a couple of bad starts it fires up just fine.
fires right up first time I use it.
make a couple of stops / no problem.
then it happens. low crank like there's no juice.
sit and wait five minutes. try again. same thing. wait another five minutes. fires right up, strong.
my wife said today that when it happened to her she turned the ignition and held it.
same low crank a couple of times and then it fired right up. she said she saw a puff of smoke, which freaked me out so I went out and took it for a ride until the problem showed up and did the same thing she said she did. turned the ignition and held it. first, nothing at all, then a low crank, then nothing and then it fired right up just as strong as ever. no puff of smoke for me.
I will refrain for making my own assessment, because I am almost always wrong, except to say that something between the key and the starter is going bad and i am hoping to hear from someone who can say
1st. "I had the same thing happen and it was "X".
2nd. " you need to replace the following...", starting with the least expensive parts.
A cable? is there a relay going bad when heated? is this indicative of a solinoid problem?
thanks for taking the time to read this.

[G O R T]

Any time a car acts like this you should hook an analog meter up for testing.

Connect the negative lead to an engine bracket or bolt.
Hold the positive lead to the posative battery post.
Have someone crank the engine while you note the lowest voltage.
If the voltage falls below 9 volts you probably have a bad ground.
Next, measure at the positive battery cable. If the voltage drops the cable to post connection is bad.
Next measure at the battery cable eyelet on the starter. If it drops here the cable is bad.
Next measure at the starter stud itself. If voltage drops here the eyelet to stud connection is bad.

If you are still getting over 9 volts at the starter stud the problem is in the starter.

I have had this problem before and it was the starter but learn to check before you buy parts. Some starters have a bolt in an inobvious place so don't break anything if you replace it!

[steveo122]

"learn to check before you buy parts"
exactly why I'm here!
thank you very much for responding and for the advice.

Originally Posted by G O R T

Any time a car acts like this you should hook an analog meter up for testing.

Connect the negative lead to an engine bracket or bolt.
Hold the positive lead to the posative battery post.
Have someone crank the engine while you note the lowest voltage.
If the voltage falls below 9 volts you probably have a bad ground.
Next, measure at the positive battery cable. If the voltage drops the cable to post connection is bad.
Next measure at the battery cable eyelet on the starter. If it drops here the cable is bad.
Next measure at the starter stud itself. If voltage drops here the eyelet to stud connection is bad.

If you are still getting over 9 volts at the starter stud the problem is in the starter.

I have had this problem before and it was the starter but learn to check before you buy parts. Some starters have a bolt in an inobvious place so don't break anything if you replace it!

[Snyderford]

You might check the positive cable to the starter, I have had several of these which were loose, and sometimes they cause a spark at the terminal which might cause a puff of smoke. If the cable has been sparking for a long time it might be necessary to replace the cable or the "eyelet" at the end. I have also had several starter failures. Hope this is some help.

[queentif]

Oh my godness!!! I have had this exact same thing happen to my Taurus several times in the 2 months. I have used all of my AAA road service calls on this problem. I have been to the dealership several times and of course it starts with no problem. The last time I took it (last week), they said it was the starter relay, had that replaced. Guess what it happened again. I have had it towed twice, wouldnt you know it started up as soon as it came down off the tow truck. It is becoming frustrating, I am afraid to stop anywhere for fear that my car wont start. Sometimes it starts the 2nd or third time I turn the key, but twice it wouldnt start until the next day. Does not happen everyday, but at least a few times a wee. I will have my battery cables checked. Even though they were supposed to check them last week at the dealership.

[steveo122]

when I originally posted this on 11/19/07 I searched several sites and finally read a post by someone who had this problem and it was caused by oil leaking on the starter connectors. I had an oil leak which turned out to be a loose oil filter which sits directly above the connectors. I tightend the filter, the leak stopped and the starter worked fine until today. now the same problem only this time it just wouldn't start. had to leave it at the local burger joint and will try it again in the morning, fingers crossed.
question: does anyone think this problem could be related to the starter relay.
I'm guessing 'no' because that part only costs six bucks.

thanks again to all who responded.

[waylowrider]

You mentioned the oil leak was coming from the oil filter. When you have your oil filter changed, does oil "drain" out of the old filter onto the starter while you're unscrewing it? I think a good cleaning of all coonections to the starter to remove the oil and any sorrosion might solve your problem. If the positive battery cable connection is loose like "Snyderford" mentioned, the leaking oil will get between the mating surfaces. When you turn the key to start your car, a small arc here or there between the cable surfaces and over time the you no longer have a true metal to metal contact to allow the electrical power to flow from the battery.

[ABE]

I would suspect the starter has failed. Probable point of failure would be the heavy solenoid connections that engage after the "click". These are designed to rotate to minimize burning, but it happens over time. This is usually the reason that successive starts can yield success. Another problem is the commutator where the brushes contact getting burned, quite possible where you keep the starter engaged while high power is put through the starter.

Check the connections at the solenoid, but you will probably have to replace the starter. You can disassemble yourself to check if you want. Then put all the parts in a box for another starter.