1998 Windstar stalling

Flyingjackal456 · 08-15-2008, 11:23 AM

Sorry for my long absence from the site, I've been busy with a bunch of stuff. Including with my van and The mechanic.

A while back, I posted issues after the engine swap with stalling at an Idle in gear. I've noticed that it has a much higher chance of stalling when the A/C is on. The radiator fans kicking on isn't helping much either.

Anyway, after replacing the broken IMRC valve, it got alot better, but not perfect. I then found the spark plugs were not gapped. Re-gapping the plugs improved the engine sound and power. It was a tiny bit more stable too. Then I replaced the IAC valve (Motocraft OEM if you care). That helped smoothen the RPMs a bit, but it still stalls.

I took it back to the installer, and he'd been trying things for over a week (thank god not charging for labor). Incidentally, another customer dropped off a windstar for something else. My mechanic played "musical parts" between the two vans. Every time, my van stalls and hesitates, and the other van is good. He confirmed all of the parts were fine. He did discover the crankshaft position sensor was only "reading 4 lines instead of 7. I'm not too sure what that means but he readjusted the sensor and it is now working correctly.

I now have the van back temporarily, due to I need quotes at the body shop, and Aamco has to check a code that my mechanic found in the tranny. As a temporary fix, there's a spacer (made of elec. tape) to raise the idle on the throttle body a bit.

I know it's only a temporary fix, and the gas mileage will probably suck, but the van is working alot better. It has alot more power than it did before, and the spacer gets rid of the hesitation.

The van will be heading back to him next week when their technician-consultant gets back from vacation, as he has not seen the van yet. They suspect it could be a defect in the engine. I guess only time will tell if the technician can't, it is under 5 year/100,000 mile warantee.

Company that made the rebuild (supposedly they make a very good engine):
http://www.goppt.com/

mark v · 08-15-2008, 03:12 PM

I hope you get this issue fixed soon, I know you been having issues since the rebuild.

Flyingjackal456 · 08-16-2008, 12:43 AM

I forgot to mention in the previous post. The installer mention a few days ago That according to his scope (and his butt-load of other testing equipment) the ignition timing is going "very negative" when you press the pedal at an idle, and once the hesitation stops, the timing corrects itself to the proper value. My guess is that means the timing is retarded in the beginning. If anyone has an idea on this one, please let me know.

FYI- The code my mechanic found has to deal with the torque converter. I called Aamco and they are more than happy to repair it. Sounds like a solenoid... maybe the solution to the problem? *crossing fingers*

My question to anybody is, Is it possible that the throttle body screws (the ones that limit the closed and open positions) can twist out of position? My dad insists that I ask, I don't think they would move.

My plan is wednesday, the van will go to Aamco for the Transmission "issue" (Personally it's shifting great, but If they think there's a problem, let them fix it. Then It's going back to the Mechanic for one final look at the engine issue. Then on the 25th, it's going in for Body work and some fresh paint. The body shop estimates that it'll take 2 weeks to get the job done.

I'm debating between a Burnt / Sunset Orange, or a Mustang Blue (like the new mustang's blue) The color choice is still open until the day I bring it in and finalize it. Any suggestions on color would be great. I am also going to be ordering some nice 17" American Racing wheels, with tires mounted, custom seat covers (simulated leather black with either charcoal or blue inserts...depends on the exterior color), and I will be tinting the glass.

Again If anyone has any suggestions on either why the van is stalling, or what color to paint it, please let me know. And yes, I'll have before/after shots to share with all of you when it's done, but you gotta be patient.

BroncoJoe19 · 08-16-2008, 08:50 PM

I also have been away, and if this is a part of an ongoing thread, I missed it or don't recall, at any rate, did you pull codes?
Stalling at idle can be MAF or MAP related, vacuum leaks, coil pack problems bad grounds, or other issues.
I know that you have been around the block a bit, what are your thoughts? What have you already ruled out?

GraybeardAv · 08-16-2008, 09:04 PM

With all the money you've put in it, I would paint it gold.

Flyingjackal456 · 08-16-2008, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroncoJoe19

I also have been away, and if this is a part of an ongoing thread, I missed it or don't recall, at any rate, did you pull codes?
Stalling at idle can be MAF or MAP related, vacuum leaks, coil pack problems bad grounds, or other issues.
I know that you have been around the block a bit, what are your thoughts? What have you already ruled out?

Funny, Funny Graybeard...

BroncoJoe: Oh my god, I might as well write a book about the things that have been done to it. It's hard because there is a long list and I am the third guy on the "chain of communication"

NOTE: This post has some stuff bolded for lazy readers.

The guy I talk to is the owner, whom gets the info from his mechanic. The owner is a transmission guy... not as good with engines, but apparently the mechanic is pretty darn good. (Mechanic's doing the work on it to my knowledge) Monday i am driving up to the garage again, because their elite "technician" will be in from his vacation, and everyone thinks that if anyone, he may be able to figure this out. I really do not want to go to the stealership, but as a last resort I may have to

.

Anyway, there are many posts leading to this...
(Before the blow) Wierd Startup problem
http://www.ford-forums.com/ford-wind...ing-issue.html
Engine blow:
http://www.ford-forums.com/ford-wind...ig-issues.html
Still blown

...
http://www.ford-forums.com/ford-wind...-new-life.html
The plan to get back on the road:
http://www.ford-forums.com/ford-wind...-windstar.html
And of course this post.

Anyway. I've been working on this issue for a while. And I can safely say my basic diagnostic skills are pretty decent, but I cannot figure this one out for the life of me. After I got the engine installed, I drove it home. I didn't notice anything odd besides a rough feeling under load at a low RPM. Although It seemed to be fading away, and It soon disappeared. During this point I noticed this stalling issue, only it was bad. It happened constantly, even out of gear. Maybe two days later I took it on a 400 mile trip (200 mi each way). I noticed (200 miles away) In my grandpa's driveway, that the IMRC valves do not hold vacuum. When I plug up the vacuum and m[/b]ove the valves by hand, the van would run like butter. I then went on the hunt for this part. (all the autostores wanted outrageous amounts for it, junkyards have none, I ended up taking the best price of i think $160 from rockauto). After I installed it, the engine was running great for a little while. But soon after (i presume) the computer re-adjusted and the problem returned, though not nearly as bad. It only happened in gear now. I think the installer looked at it a bit, he swapped the coil pack, crankshaft pos. sensor, and I think checked the TPS... Nothing

. So I picked it up and took it home (I need a third car around). I came home from work one night (couple days later) with a feeling. Some sort of supernatural gut-feeling to check spark plugs at midnight (signs of an obsessed gearhead: screw the midnight snack, check the spark plugs!)... I spent two hours reaching for plugs to find that my installer never gapped the plugs

. (He explained the block came with the plugs installed, and they assumed the plugs were gapped) After that, the engine had a lot more power, ran a lot smoother, stop sounding diesel-like... But it soon stalled again. The issue is getting less frequent, but still as annoying. I later checked the TPS myself (good), and the PCV, other major vacuum lines, and checked one spark plug: running a bit lean (The old engine's plugs told me that it ran a tiny bit lean too if I recall correctly). I got pissed off and took a small break from the issue, just driving and listening for signs... near-nothing. I assumed Idle... old IAC valve, I bought Motocraft IAC valve and instaled it...breaking a bolt inside the plenum

(Just FYI: F67E-9F715-AA was replaced with F67E-9F715-AC... same part, just revised twice since Sept. 1997). The idle was a lot smoother, less hunting for the correct RPM (sign of running lean, although the old engine Never stalled...EVER). I drove around for a while, with a grin on my face. Till I found myself in the left turn lane, green arrow... asshat honking his horn, because the windstar desides to take a crap next to the manhole under me.... Shift into neutral... slowly rolling forward, and fire her back up...

I then dropped it off at the installer, whom he went through the list... MAF, TPS, CPS, Fuel pressure, "thorough" Injector tests, sadly some other guy had to have his windy temporarily parted out instead of what I presume should have been just a tranny fluid flush. This is what I was told:
Crankshaft position sensor was reading 4 lines instead of 7, re-calibrated and the sensor is now is working properly (It was replaced earlier). The van now "behaves different, the RPM no longer dips, it now just hesitates. He also simultaneously swapped "every sensor they could possibly think it is, including the PCM... and my van stalls/hesitates, while the other one runs perfect. He has determined they need this elite technician to look at it. He suggested that the only thing left is a defect in the engine. He said that the valves or valve springs may not have equal amounts of spring force. (I forget the wording he used, but I suppose he has a point...except for the fact that this motor should have NEW valves, valve guides, valve springs, etc.)

As of last night, I was driving (remember, the spacer is limiting the throttle body from closing completely) and at one light, I was sitting there... RPM at a steady 850... light turns green *Déjà vu*... that asshat is behind me again. After that the van was back to the way it was before I had the installer do his thing. I also smelled a tiny bit of burning oil

Luckily the oil smell was just the WD-40, to lube the new threads I finally did for the IAC (I used lube to tap the metal-filled epoxy). I decided to poke around under the hood for a tiny bit. I think I hear a leak around the plenum above cylinder number 2, I plan to investigate this (spray starter fluid tomorrow)... I also plan to install my injector O-rings eventually, even though they should be fine.

I am open to any suggestions, as I really don't want to rent the van off to people for an eternity. I need to get this problem out of the way so I can then waste my money on aesthetics

.

EDIT:

They have NOT replaced (my suspicious partslist)
• O2 Sensors (supposedly tested, but I think they are weak/misreading)
• TPS
• Anything in the EGR system, incuding cleaning the EGR pasagges on the intake.
• Alternator (showing weak signs... I don't like junker parts)
• Battery (gonna be done anyway before winter...showing signs)
• Injector O-rings (sitting on my desk)

BroncoJoe19 · 08-17-2008, 10:37 PM

Wow!
The least expensive could be a vacuum leak. I know that you stated that all of the major lines were checked, how about some of the lesser ones? Do all of your heater, and AC controls work properly? As you know they are vacuum controlled.

I think I hear a leak around the plenum above cylinder number 2, I plan to investigate this (spray starter fluid tomorrow)... You know.. this could be huge!

Your CEL is NOT on? You are not getting any codes?

I don't think faulty O2 sensors, or EGR stuff would cause stalling, but a dead battery could. You may want to consider changing the battery if it is pretty weak. A new and fully charged battery even with a weak alternator should supply sufficient amperage and voltage long enough for you to determine if it is the issue or not.

Also of course, good grounds are important.

IF you haven't done so recently, you may want to pull codes to see if anything comes up.

Flyingjackal456 · 08-18-2008, 06:44 AM

I have no CEL, but the bulb is blown, last time I had the codes read it was just "runnng lean banks 1/2".

I compared the charging system of my Sienna and the windstar.... The battery is about 1.5 volts off (lower) than it should be..... When the headlights, radio, a/c, are on... I have determned the alternate cannot even even keep up, especially when the radiator fans kick in...

I have investigated the suspicious air leak, it ejded up being the HVAC outside air duct, not sealing with the front cowl. I have since sealed it up and my A/C is now coolder and no engine smells in the cab.

As for vacuum issues, everything in the van, minus the sticky defroster switch (spilled coffee in cup holder), works as if new.

I plan to buy a big battery later today. 1000 amps should do it (plannng ahead for the audio system). When I get around to the alternator, I think I might get the 200 amp version.

BroncoJoe19 · 08-18-2008, 07:15 AM

Running lean could be a vacuum leak... unmetered air.
Air getting in after the MAF sensor.
Could also be an exhaust leak getting air in before the O2 sensors.

Flyingjackal456 · 08-18-2008, 07:25 AM

... I'm wondering what kind of shape the MAF is in, personally...

Can someone give me the specs of the TPS. I need the resistance measured at idle, and at WOT... also measure the resistance between pin 1 and 3.

exhaust shouldn't have leaks... new gaskets and stuff after the engine swap, and I see/smell no fumes.