Windstar 3.8 Chugging/Missing

[12Ounce]

Let's stick with the plugs and wires a bit more. On my '99, plugs #3 & #4 fire together ... both using the same coil. Assuming your model is the same .... If you go to the coil pack and change the cables for #3 and #4 ... it will be interesting if the code changes to P0304 ... misfire on #4.

[12Ounce]

Man, I'm sorry you had the problem. Yeah, getting to that sensor is a real PITA. And the studs and nuts could have been stainless steel ... but that would have cost 5 cents!

Being the mechanic for all my extended family ... I get to work on many brands. They all have shortcomings. I still usually prefer Fords ... but I do a lot of re-engineering over the years if I keep one for a while ... and changing fasteners is high on my change list.

[mark v]

Yeah be pissed at every automobile maker then. They all use stupid type of fasteners like this.

Stainless steel would have been a big no no, mixing different metals would have made the issue worse.

Yeah that part is exposed to the elements and also extreme heat. I was just under my car a few days ago and inspecting the underbody along with the engine cradle. I noticed how nice my bolt heads are and how I can still see threads on exposed studs on the engine.

I think it all depends on how the vehicle has been driven in its life. When I drive mine it is usually for a long distance.

I also live in Wisconsin where the roads turn from black to white in the Winter due to the High amounts of salt we use on the roads. You can literally turn a black car gray in the winter if you do not wash it.

Would you rather own a GM that burns a quart of oil every 1000 miles on an engine with just over 18k miles, imagine what it will be like at 80k miles. GM new about this issue but didnt recall the engines, they fixed the issue only if the original customer complained when the car was new.

Originally Posted by CraigRK

I am PISSED!

A new crankshaft position sensor arrived by mail late yesterday, and I attempted to install it this morning. This absolutely critical piece is held in position by two very small studs on the engine block, in a location that is quite difficult to access. The studs themselves are 3/16" diameter (.187") and as they are located low on the engine by the main pulley, are fully exposed to all the elements and salt, rain etc. and SO GET RUSTY. I carefully sprayed these nuts and studs with a good penetrating oil, carefully selected the correct six-point socket, and with only slight pressure, snapped off the tiny stud.

Whether or not my engine problem is due to a failing CKP sensor I will likely never find out. If I attempt to remove the second nut, it will likely snap also, leaving my vehicle with no way to re-attach a new sensor. Because of the location of these studs, it will be virtually impossible to drill and re-tap these studs without removing the engine. To replace a $20 sensor. Held by two tiny 3/16" studs. In a location virtually impossible to access should they snap.

I am glad Ford may survive the current shakeout in the automotive industry (my two vehicles are both Fords), because having the U.S. without an automobile manufacturer is just too scary, but this kind of engineering is utterly inexcusable. I will NEVER buy another Ford.

CraigK

[BroncoJoe19]

Did you pull codes again?
After you changed the coil I suspect that you would have gotten rid of one or two of your misses.

Did you reposition the coil wires as 12 ounce suggested?
What was the result?

You can use a noid light to check for impulses to the injector of the missing cyl, or you can use a screwdriver held to your ear to listen for the clicking open of the injector.


how to check for power to injectors
A noid light is a small incandescent bulb in a socket with pins that plug directly into the wiring harness leading to your fuel injectors.

Popular Mechanics: Auto Clinic Expert Q & A -- Fuel Injection - Popular Mechanics
A picture and more information is inlcuded in the above link.

If all the above checks out, then consider a compression test or using a vacuum guage.


How to Use and Interpret a Vacuum Gauge

I hope you find this info helpful

[BroncoJoe19]

Normally a spark jumps a gap in the plug which ignites a fuel air mixture that is under pressure six times per revolution of your engine. It happens once in each cylinder per revolution. If by chance one cylinder fails to fire that is a missfire. IF multiple cyls missfire then you have multiple missfires.

What causes a miss? Not enough air, too much air (vacuum leak). No fuel,(bad/clogged injector, empty tank, low fuel pressure - dirty fuel filter,weak connection to pump , weak pump) no spark, weak spark, lack of compression, valve timing, burnt valve, spark/ignition timing.

When you replaced the camshaft position sensor, did you remove the synchronizer too? Or just the sensor? The synchronizer can be installed improperly.

In the 60's and 70's one could run an engine with a dead miss all day, but not so with the newer engines. I'm not sure about the 3.8, but with my 4.6, if I have a dead miss, the engine REALLY pukes. The PCM senses the dead miss, and to protect the CATs from overheating cuts off half of the fuel injectors. It goes into limp mode, and you can't get over 30 mph. When you have a dead miss, the fuel that should have been burned gets dumped into the exhaust and gets burned in the CAT causing it to overheat.

Did you reconnect your O2 sensors?

I just re-read this post, and realized that you never answered me when I asked if you looked for vacuum leaks.
Two things I suggest at this point is:
1. Look for a vacuum leak
2. Check and clean your grounds. (even the little ones to the fenders, radiator support etc.)
3. is your battery up to 12 volts or more?

Checking for vacuum leaks.
Some of the sensors and some of the actuators either read the amount of vacuum, or use vacuum to move controls, therefore it is important to the proper functioning of the engine that your vacuum system is fully intact. Otherwise one may get codes falsely indicating that there is a problem with a controller/actuator, or a sensor when in reality it is caused by a lack of vacuum.

Look at your rubber vacuum hoses (they are about 1/4 - 3/8 inches in diameter, if they are dry rotted or cracked, replace them. IF they slip on/off of their connectors too easily, they may have stretched out a little bit, cut the ends off, and put them back on.

You may listen for a leak. Sometimes using a cut off piece of garden hose is a good aid to listen with. Sometimes a cardboard tube (like from gift wrapping paper) is helpful. Just remember that whenever you stick your head inside a running engine compartment, that you are not wearing any loose clothing or jewelry that can get caught.

Another suggestion is to use a spray can of carb cleaner and spray around the bottom of the intake manifold, and the base of the throttle body assembly. IF there is a leak, you should hear a change in your engine.
Keep a fire extinguisher handy, or use water instead of carb cleaner (it works, but not as well.) Be aware that if you use water and the wires get wet and it runs worse... your wires may be bad, and the water is allowing them to arc instead of jump the gap of the spark plug.

Another suggestion is: to take a propane torch, turn it on (but don't light it) and move it over the vacuum hoses and connections. The engine RPM's will increase if there is a leak and the propane gets sucked in.

Courtesy of TheOldWizard ford-forums... Don't forget to remind folks to check the PCV valve, hose and grommet !

Courtesy Ramnasal ford-forums... Clamp off the hose that runs to the vacuum booster (brake booster) or pull it and plug it. It is possible that the diaphram on the inside of the booster may go bad and cause a vacuum leak.

[BroncoJoe19]

I don't know how it senses a misfire and generates a code, but there is something called a cylinder balance test. And it will throw the same code for a miss whether it is due to spark (lack of ) or fuel injector (no fuel).

I believe that the PCM can determine slight variations in the engine speed, or torque when one cylinder does not fire and contribute to maintaining RPMs. The sensor most likely to be involved in that is the Crankshaft position sensor (or maybe the camshaft position sensor. I always get their functions confused.)

You may also want to start considering a compression test. I don't know how you would be able to test Cyl #1.

BTW... there is a common vac leak on the 3.8. Right on top of the engine on the driver's side there is a rubber elbow that heads towards the firewall. Made my van run so poorly I bought a scanner, I was afraid that if I took it to get it scanned I may not have been able to get it back home.

98WinVacumDiagram.jpg

[BroncoJoe19]

As depicted in the above diagram, you can clamp off sections of the vacuum tree to see if it makes a difference.

[mark v]

No need to apologize, we all need to vent.

Originally Posted by CraigRK

Okay.
Thanks mark v. Sorry, I was venting a bit.

[Intruder196]

I am interested in what you find that fixes your problem as my 2000 Windstar just started the exact same problem you described. But I wont hijack your thread. I'll start a new one.

[BroncoJoe19]

This thread is getting loong in the tooth, and I am starting to get it confused with others. Please when someone makes a suggestion, aknowledge it. 12Ounce's suggestion in post #14 is a good one, and is easy to do. If you had a scanner you could easily determine if the miss moved. You can still do it the old fashioned way, pull the plug wire and see if it makes a difference.

What is your plan from here?